Announcer: Welcome to the Geniuses of Copywriting podcast, a peek into the minds and strategies of the world's greatest copywriters, marketers, and persuasion experts. And now, here's your host, Brian Cassingena.
Brian: Hey guys, welcome to the Geniuses of Copywriting podcast. It's my privilege and honor today to introduce a guy to you who I study in one if his paid groups and a guy who I kind of bumped into almost at TNC. I remember, we, I think we shared a fist bump or something, but we never actually managed to speak, so it's awesome to finally meet up with you, Jeff J. Hunter, the Facebook copywriter. So thanks for coming over today.
Jeff: My pleasure.
Brian: Yeah. So, appreciate you coming on and sharing this stuff, which I'm personally interested in. This is kind of the selfish reason why I have people on the show, you know, because I'm interested in what they have to share and hopefully the listeners are as well. So, can you tell the people a bit about yourself if they're not familiar with you.
Jeff: Wow. So I'll keep this short and sweet. So I come from the corporate world. Actually, I've been an IT guy my whole life. I worked as an IT project manager for I guess 10, almost 10 years of my adult life. And then I ventured off to do something that was really awesome. I became a project manager for a fortune 100 company and that's kind of where I learned these virtual project management skills, which made me start my first company called VA Staffer, which was a virtual assistant company.
Jeff: And then really quickly, I hit a brick wall. I'm realizing that it was very challenging to go from the project management world into the sales world because I never had to do marketing or sales ever. I was just the guy that once people bought something, I made it happen. So, I actually became a copywriter out of one word, four letters, envy.
Jeff: I used to see these other business owners and these consultants and coaches and I guess what they call now, influencers, just destroying the Internet, doing really amazing things and building these great companies and have these really amazing fans and followers that just buy everything. And I don't know if you've ever read or heard of the philosophy called A Thousand Fans.
Jeff: But it talks about how you can be successful in anything that you do in life, online or offline as long as you have like 1000 superly devoted fans and followers that will just do whatever you want and buy all your programs. And I got frigging angry that everyone was growing these huge communities and I wasn't. So I started studying some of the best copywriters, and seeing what they're doing. And I started looking at all these online programs at copywriting and direct response marketing and all these different types of things.
Jeff: But I quickly found that no one was actually doing the work. And if I didn't see any like factually data backed up stuff about doing organic marketing on social media. People had all sorts of plans to do copywriting for like sales pages and landing pages and all this other stuff. But there wasn't like a go to resource or any sort of study or industry or social media. So I became obsessed with it. And then here I am today.
Brian: Yeah, that's really interesting because you're right, there's so many templates for everything. But this is one of the reasons why I just mentioned that I've paid you to study which some of stuff that was you're going to go into in a minute because there's no blueprints for that in other places. There's different people doing it, sort of in bits and pieces around the place. But this is what I'm excited to really cover today on this podcast.
Jeff: Funny Story, It actually started with a mutual colleague of ours, someone who've you've already had on your podcast. I saw on your show Mitch Miller. Mitch Miller and his girlfriend Carla invited me to speak at a kinda, I guess you could call it not really mastermind, more of a more of a session alert, a training session. Where me, Carla and Mitch, we're going to teach copywriting at this workshop.
Jeff: And it's funny because I was kind of recognized as a copywriter before I kind of identified myself as a copywriter. You know, Mitch and Carla were like you are so good, you should do a workshop on it. And of course I put some thought into it and I said, okay. So then the challenge became from the time I committed to it to actually presenting that I actually had to have a game plan on what I was going to teach these guys.
Jeff: That's where the challenge was when I came up and I dissected, by the way, all of my Facebook posts over, I think it was 2000 Facebook posts, not mine, 2000 Facebook posts. A lot of those were hundreds of them were mine, but also from some of the best copywriters out there. And I had a, I have a pretty large team at my agency, branded media that.io and I had them go and research and find out what was the things in all of these social media posts that really made them successful.
Jeff: And I really tore it apart into five main sections, which is curiosity and leading up with value and drawing them in, making people feel emotionally invested and then analyzing something like giving proven evidence, like people who like that they liked that analysis of something. Yeah. And then really drawing people into making, causing a reaction. And it's funny because I didn't even realize when I, when my team came back with those five elements that is spelled the word clear. And so I came up with something accidentally called the clear copywriting workshop. Um, and the funny part is I have a team that does virtual assistance and social media management for companies. We do marketing. And I actually came up with it to help my own team. I was teaching my own internal team how to do this stuff. And then when Mitch saw it, he said, dude, this is really great. You should, you should totally charged for this man. You can put a course together. I'm like, really? We're going to take advice from me on how to do social media to coffee? And he's like, Damn Dude, you're killing it man. Like, yeah, bitch was like, I want to know, you know, when out there flew to the Philippines where, uh, Mitch and Carla were, we held a really full house.
Jeff: I mean, standing room only event. It was only supposed to have 10 people. I think there are 20 people in that room. So there were a bunch of people stranded around. Um, and I taught the lesson and afterwards everybody was raving and the people came to me, they're messaging me saying, hey, you asked me for advice and this and that. And um, it went really good. And admissions team and partner, you know, Mac, he, he gave me the video recording and it was just a shabby little dark room. You know, it's kind of like an underground workshop really. And I, I just took that video and I said, I wonder if people like it. I posted it up, align. I made 10,000 sales on a $50 product. I raise it to 100 bucks, but I can't say it's all in $50. I went from 50 to a hundred.
Jeff: Um, but then people started asking me for more. Okay, well that's great. Now I know how to write a social media to post. The whole point of that, by the way, was how do I get a social media post that people really engage with? Si. We've, we've reached this weird dilemma in the online space where there's a lot of fakes out there, a lot of people that buy followers and stuff, but you know what? You can't fake real engagement. You can't fake it. You can tell if somebody has a bunch of bots commenting on it, cool. Love your profile, DM me. Right? Versus somebody who actually writes a thoughtful comment on something that you, right, right. So that's where it all led to. I really got into the science of how can I get people to truly feel invested in the stories and react and engage with content sense. So, right. I feel like I've already done the science in 2018 I've recorded 3,764 Facebook posts. Okay. Were mine. I stepped my game up and 2018 no, those were all going to post on my Facebook page and my Facebook profile and my Facebook groups. Um, and it also does cover my linkedin profile. So some of those are duplicates, but I have my team go and record all the data, how many likes they got, how many comments they got, how many shares they got. You know, like I wanted to know everything there was to know about the data, the science of copywriting on social media.
Brian: Hmm. Hmm. And what does it tell you so far that, is that how you came up with the formula?
Jeff: Yeah. You know, the clear formula. Thank God it's, it's tried and true. It's a matter of fact, when I, when I launched social copy secrets, which is the program that you joined, you know, the very first thing was I told him, I said, great, I'm going to show you how to take those engaging posts and make and make money from it because I think there's a big disconnect between getting really good engagement on posts and then taking people's money, right? I think there's a really big disconnect. And so my social copy secrets program was really to bridge that show people, okay, now that you've got a really cool engaged audience, they liked your content, how, how can you actually make sales from it? Um, and that is what people do not teach that if you, if you try to look up selling still on social media, you're just going to see like Facebook ads.
Jeff: You're going to see, um, you know, you're, you're going to see people talk about Jvs and you're going to see people talking about pitching all at the time and closing deals. And when people saw that I did $40,000 in sales for social copy secrets on six organic Facebook posts only on Facebook, on my personal profile without sending anyone a single link. Imagine that. Right. It already has people like I just got, uh, I think, you know, influenced of magazine. Clinton just reached out to me. Um, and Thinkific wants to reach out to me like the core software I'm using to create that, but um, they want to do articles on how it's even possible because, um, it's, it's mind blowing to people to think that you can make organic sales like that without doing paid out.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've recently done a lot of copywriting for, uh, Justin Brooke that skills and to, you know, um, there are about paid advertising and they talk a lot about, um, how these platforms are moving to, uh, really took more towards yeah. Pay To play, you know, organic reaches diminishing. Do you find that, do you find that is a case and and does a clear copywriting formula really help you get around that?
Jeff: It does. So first off, what they said is true. The social media platforms once you to pay. Right. That's how they get paid. So they, they, especially on Facebook pages and see, this is why guys, I believe that the organic Facebook profile and the organic linkedin profile are the most two powerful things. You can do an Instagram too. Instagram is great. Okay. The, the audiences a little bit off, you know, like there's a lot of lookers on there. It's, it's, you know, there's not as many people reading as there is people double clicking pictures of awesome hotties on the beach, which is right. Yeah, right. But I told my wife, if I look like her on Instagram, I'd have at least 10 times.
Jeff: Yeah, exactly. But the thing is if you're trying to make money on social media organically, okay, the importance of having your audience dialed in, understanding who they are, having really good compelling stories. And here's the keyword that everyone misses. Most copywriters, of course they were listening to this, you're probably a copywriter and you hear me say this and you're like, ah, but relevance is so damn important. Like, can people relate to you in your posts? Can they, can they relate to what you're saying? Um, you got to hit the pain points. You've got a Pique, the curiosity. And I feel, and Brian maybe, maybe you agree with me or not, but I feel like the attention span of the human being online is getting smaller and smaller.
Brian: Yeah, it is for sure. I mean, the studies, the studies years ago that say, you know, it's a fraction of a second and it's just getting down to fractions of a fraction of a second. If you are not like instantly, like a relatively safe, it doesn't say that initial first perception, uh, isn't for you. You know, um, you just scroll on by.
Jeff: Yeah. And, and that's exactly the thing. I mean, let's, let's, let's put it all together here now. Like if we're going to be honest with ourselves, so if we only have a fraction of a second to get someone's attention, how important is that first couple sentences that you, right, right. Um, I've found that the shorter the sentence on an opening on social media, the better. So there's a tip to all of you guys out there. Um, you know, like I have a confession to make probably one of the strongest opening phrases you could possibly have. Yeah. Um, another one, I hate to say this right, or, or I failed, I failed. My biggest posts of 2018 was a post titled I failed. Um, it was incredible. It was, it was literally a life changing moment for me because that's when I realized the power of copywriting on social media because I was able to book.
Jeff: So a little backstory. I have a pretty large team and I had one client last year, one client that made up of 10 of my team members. Now at that time I had about 50 people on my team. So that's a fifth of my team by one huge client. I was a corporate client and love them by the way. Thankfully they're still, my client don't most about Tom, but um, they have a new sales VP that came in and basically, uh, reevaluate and all the, all the, they call it third party enablement contracts, which is what we are. And, um, basically said that, that, you know, in 30 days we're terminating our agreement with you. And I had 10 people that have no jobs. And I wrote a post about, I don't know if you remember this post, but I wrote a post about it and I said, guys, I failed my team.
Jeff: Um, I get emotional thinking about it right now, but I'm like, these are 10 families that rely on me. You know, these are most of the people that were for me. I'm on this account, we're in the Philippines, they're doing something called lead generation. So they're just scraping data scraping leads, you know, this is a really challenging job and it's really hard to find people in America to do it, by the way. Um, but I had this team just dedicated to this client for three years and, um, the contract was only two years. So I mean, technically I just, I just wasn't prepared. You know, it, I can't say anything against that because, you know, they, they loved us so much. They stay with us for another year. I mean, everything's cool. But I wrote the post saying that, you know, and I have 30 days to find 10 people jobs or I'm going to have to make some really tough decisions that you know, could really impact these families.
Jeff: And then I said, here's what these people know how to do. And I said, they can do linkedin for you, they can do data mining, they can do legion. I just went through all these different things and I said, look, I'm going to put the package together here where these guys can work for you and do this, this, this and this. You can pick any package you want, $500 a month and these guys are going to be super happy to work for you. And the people were, I mean I, I broke down the whole story of what happened and how the contract terminated and how I, how I felt when I got that phone call and the responses. I mean people felt so compelled to help me and my team and the situation that I did that post on a Tuesday and Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and even Saturday I was doing 12 to 14 hour days back to back of phone calls of people to see if they would be a good fit.
Jeff: I offered free 30 minute consultation calls to see if my team would be a good fit for them and not only did we get all of those people's jobs saved, but I had to hire three new people since they handle the jobs of all the people that wanted them. One of the team and it was, that was the moment and that was in January of last year or 2018 that I realized that you could use the power of social media and copywriting to compel somebody to take massive action and pay you 500 to a thousand dollars a month with no questions asked. Just get on a phone and give you and basically say, Jeff, please take my money. That's when I realized I went all out. I went all out on, on copywriting. I went all out on understanding of the human psychology of a sale and I went all out on understanding how to game.
Jeff: I don't want to say game, I want to say leverage, leverage, leverage the algorithm in social media so that you can actually get ahead and get your content placed first on the news feed. That's what's key. Like every time I log in, I know for a fact I am, every time I make a post, my stuff is like top in front for all 5,000 of my people on my list and my 4,000 plus followers. I mean it's, how do I know this? Because every time I post it's the bomb. And when I say bomb, I mean a bomb shell, like it's blowing up. Um, let me, can I share my screen? Yeah, go ahead. All right. I want to, I want to show people an example cause you know how it is. I mean, some people think people are full of crap, right?
Jeff: All right, let me, uh, who, this is going to be weird because of a sharing a screen with me and to do, all right, so I'm going to show you my Facebook account. For those of you guys that are watching this and not listening to the podcast, I'll also explain a little bit what's going on, but I'm just just going to click on my own profile. This is my, this is my organic profile. You can see my screen, Brian. So this is just my organic screen and here I made a post seven hours ago, seven hours ago. I haven't even checked it. It's got, you know, almost 30, uh, engagements here. It's got 20, 20 comments and it's all talking about it. It's, it's basically telling a story about the passive income lie you. And I know that all of these scammers online always talk about how to make passive in your, you know, how to make money in your sleep, right?
Jeff: That's the number one thing. It's easy to take people's money and when you, when they think that you're going to give it back to them timestamped. So I wrote this post and I haven't even looked at these responses yet, but it's just boom, boom, boom, these darn like Kate called post whatever. Like these are intuitive, engaging, valuable comments on your stuff. And the question is, do you get that, you know, do you get these types of comments on your stuff? That's what's really important. Look at this post right here. I made 23 hours ago, not even a full day ago. Um, 22 comments just about if someone would, if you could start a charity, what would you start? You know, like these are things that, these are ways that you can use and leverage the algorithm to really get in front of everyone. And what's beautiful about the algorithm, and here's a great tip for everybody who's watching this when you're on the algorithm for other, because people are like, oh, I hate the Facebook algorithm or whatever. Ah, it's not the algorithms fault that your contents sucks, but algorithm rewards, good content. And, and if you tuned into this podcast or this web video right now and you left and you were like, if all I needed was one really important thing from this, like just one takeaway, this is it right here.
Jeff: The way to get ahead in the social media outlet rhythm and I mean Instagram, Facebook, linkedin, whatever. There is a point system, a secret point system that that that the social networks use to determine if your content is good and a big hint is the number of likes is great. The number of shares, that's great. That's how you get in front of a new audience, but the number of engagements that you get where people actually comment on your stuff, that really sends your content to the next level because Facebook's algorithm is LinkedIn's algorithm. Instagram's algorithm says, hey look, people are really responding to this. It must be really valuable. It must be really interesting to the followers. And then it says, okay, let's try it out and let's, let's give it to a few more people. We'll see how they like it and if those people like it, they comment on it.
Jeff: They said, okay, cool. Well this is obviously past the algorithm test. Let's open up the flood gates to everyone else because this is the content and that's what people don't understand. When you write copy for a sales page, when you write copy for a landing page, when you write copy for an email campaign, you're writing to one person on social media, you are a, you are trying to hook people, get them commenting and engaging on your stuff because the psychology is, it's just like that club on the corner. There's two clubs on a corner. One is full of people outside of it and align and adore. They're trying to get in. The bouncers were there and then you've got the club with the door open and no line. Which one do you want to go into? Right, exactly. People want to comment and engage on stuff that other people are commenting and engaging on. That's why sometimes if you comment and this is a fun experiment, you guys would try it. If you go to one of your posts or you go to one of my posts and if I, if you just recently posted it and I comment on your stuff, it's very funny how a lot of people will then start coming to you on it.
Speaker 4: Yeah,
Jeff: so the things that I started last year, it's called the circle of influencers, which was this really, uh, I guess you can call them people that are super committed and dedicated to being a good copywriter. And I realized that part of the game, part of the leveraging of the algorithm was once that first comment pops on. So I have a little ring of supportive people, some you can call it an engagement product of sorts, but this was here. Here it is, copywriting secrets revealed. It does matter when people come on your stuff because the algorithm says, hey, this might, this must be interesting. People are coming in on it. Secondly, the psychology of us, if you see that one of your friends or one of my friend's comments on a post, then I went to also engage and,
Speaker 4: hmm.
Brian: Yeah, that's really interesting. And it's, and it's true when a, whenever I see my friends come in and see on someone else's pies, you know, that's almost like a draw a draws me into actually make a comment myself. But I know nobody wants to be the first.
Jeff: Well, let's see, see how different that is from a sales page. Like all this Farrell's pig, no one else was, was commenting. So very super focused to that one person. And that's why it's so critically important to understand how to write for social media. You are writing to one person on social media. You are absolutely writing to one person on social media, but it's really important that when that person's done reading it, you are compelling them to take action and comment on your stuff.
Speaker 4: Hmm. Hmm.
Brian: Yeah, that's very important too. So, um, how, how can people find out more about this, cause I know you've got so much, so much more to share on this and how can they follow you?
Speaker 4: Yeah,
Jeff: so funny enough, I'm actually doing a, uh, a case study this week. Um, it's actually coming up on Friday in a California time of Mountain California near San Francisco. Um, but those of you that are listening to this, uh, in the future, yeah, I'm going to keep the recording up. It's going to be inside my Facebook group. Um, and let me, uh, let me make sure you guys can take a peek at that. I'll share my screen here. Um, how do I share that screen?
Jeff: All right guys. So check this out. Um, I have, uh, this link made here called branded media.io forward slash group or you can just look up a scale, your business and your brand group on Facebook. Um, if you, it'll, it'll look like this. All right. Scale your business and your brand. This is the, the group right here. You can actually see if you're watching this video live, you can actually see that. Uh, that's, that's it right there. I'll zoom in so you guys can see it, but it's scheduled to go live right here. Um, you're going to learn, uh, what posts I did in 2018 that got the most likes and reactions. Uh, the post with the most shares, a post with the most comments, long form versus short form video versus image versus text only. My overall top three posts, overall worst three performing posts, which by the way they tell a lot.
Jeff: And of course my predictions on what's going to actually take place in 2019 and beyond as well as how I shifted my own copywriting strategy and my own social media posting strategy to include a couple of different things. That I was really excited about. One of them, I'll give you guys if you're listening to this right now, I'll give you one of them, which was the value of doing captioned videos. Videos, really bold, catchy headlines, captions underneath in a square format that works on Instagram, linkedin and Facebook for the most bang for the buck.
Jeff: What's beautiful about that, is not only do you have your video, but you also have copy below and a crazy report that's a Roland Frasier from digitalmarketer.com put together, showed that 80% of videos are actually watched without sound on. If you can get people's attention through those captions and be, you know what, when I think about 80% of people watching, 80% of people while watching a video without sound on. I can't help but think that it's probably one of the times of where I'm like in the bathroom at work. I'm like, oh, like my videos.
Jeff: But yeah, I'd love to have you guys in the Facebook group. I'll have that inside there. You guys can check it out. And of course, Jeffjhunter.com if you guys want to connect with me more, I will have to warn you guys. The unfortunate result of having really awesome copy is that my friends' list has been full for like two years.
Jeff: So if you want to add me, my linkedin, actually I have 5,000, I think you'd go up to 10,000 on Linkedin. So if you want to connect with me personally and message me, that's the best place to go. Otherwise you're going to join my hundreds of unread messages on Facebook.
Brian: So that Branded Media I'll link, go to the group that you just showed us?
Jeff: Yeah, the brandedmedia.io/group that will take you directly to the group. I think I have a really old group link so if you go to facebook.com/groups/9010lifestyle, that's the direct link in there. But, I have a redirect site, brandedmedia.io/group and you can put that on the podcast link too.
Brian: Yeah. For those who are listening on Itunes, just go to that URL, brandedmedia.io/group. It's also gonna be up on the Geniuses of Copywriting website. I'll put a link to the group up there and everything else and I highly encourage people to do that because Jeff is one of the guys who I follow on Facebook now for copywriting. I can, I can reveal to you now, Jeff, that I have the set to see first so that I can, I can study all your Facebook copyrighting stuff cause as well as showing us I've done and I've made six figures off of social media the last couple of years.
Brian: You know, I'm always looking to learn more and study people who are doing things slightly differently and Mitch is one of those and Jeff is another. And so I highly recommend that you go to his Facebook profile as well and follow him. You know, like he said, he's been maxed out for a couple of years so you'll just have to follow his profile until they see the wisdom in raising that limit. But for now, just folllow on it.
Jeff: I have started a hashtag, #raisethelimit. And I complain and I'm not too far from Menlo Park. You know, I might be one hop skip and I have a few connections over at Facebook. You know, I am a Facebook power admin right now.
Jeff: But the thing is, there was a statement made by Facebook saying that there's no way you could have 5,000 real friends, real connections. I have to tell you, I approve my friends all the time. I go through, you know, a little trick. I looked at the birthdays' coming up and if I don't recognize someone, I'm just like poop, so I know that's scandalous, but that's what I do. And I think your name came up recently, didn't it?
Brian: Well did I survive the cut?
Jeff: Well thanks again for having me and I'm super honored that I get to join the hall of geniuses here on the podcast.
Brian: Yeah, you are a genius of social media copywriting Jeff, don't worry about that. Everyone listening to this should definitely go to brandedmedia.io/group, group? not groups? group?
Jeff: I think it's group, yeah.
Brian: Yeah. But follow Jeff on Facebook and Linkedin as well cause he posts some cool stuff now and then and the in the group as well, It's awesome. So thanks for sharing all that, Jeff. It's really valuable, really insightful, very entertaining as well. So we appreciate you coming on and we'll have to do this again some time.
Jeff: I agree. I can't wait to see you in person, for more than a fist bump next time.
Brian: Yeah Yeah, we'll do more than that. We'll have a coffee or something, all right thanks man.
Announcer: Thank you for listening to Geniuses of Copywriting with Brian Cassingena. To get the full transcript in all the resources mentioned on today's show, go to www.geniusesofcopywriting.com now.