Announcer: Welcome to the geniuses of copywriting podcast, a peek into the minds and strategies of the world's greatest copywriters, marketers, and persuasion experts. And now, here's your host, Brian Cassingena.
Brian: Welcome to the Geniuses of Copywriting podcast. And if you're a regular listener, you are in for a special treat here because I've got a guy here who besides me who has a sexy aussie accent, you know, he's, he's one of the premier experts in the marketing world today. He's coached people like Justin, Brooke, Bryan, the Beck, people like that. People in his Cokesbury is coaching groups, are really crushing it and becoming successful. So he's a man who needs no introduction. So we'll skip all that, Mr. James Schramko, thanks for joining us today. I really appreciate you having a chat with us today.
James: Thank you for having me and enjoy our interactions on social media. So it's nice to be able to actually have a formal recording again.
Brian: Yeah, yeah, we left. Did this, for those who know the podcasts, do another James Step, a third is up there that were, must have been eight to 10 years ago, I would think it was about eight years ago. We actually did that, that last step of third.
James: Who knew that a content marketing would be so popular in the future?
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. I think most of the predictions that you made on that have come true and then some, so, so I'm really excited to talk about what we're just talking about off camera a bit, the students that you have the, that are really crushing it,how they're going about their whole business model and how it relates to all the things that you put in together because with chatbots and, and a final different types of funnels and quizzes and all of that, all of that has its place. But what we were talking about is it, you know, that seems to be over complicating things a great deal. So what, what's your, what's your viewpoint on how are you working with people on that?
James: I think those tools are good. In some cases they're being used well, like marketers tend to ruin tools and platforms. They use them in ways they weren't intended for and then they get banned and it all, it's also good for the tool sellers. You know the gold rush, the people selling the tools are the ones making the money. So I think it's genius idea. Having a funnel software and if you sell chatbots and things, great. Segmentation and and surveying type tools are kind of in. But the core methodology behind it is pretty straight forward and I've been able to use some of the concepts in a much simpler way. So for example, instead of having a very complicated, survey funnel with multi segmentation and pixels and chat bots and all this, we just put a few different images on our home page with hyperlinks to the next page.
Brian: Yeah yeah.
James: With people through kind of choose your own adventure. That makes it all relevant for them. And this is an old concept. In fact, we were doing this in the car industry was segmenting our buyers according to interest. Even if they were interested in a particular model, we had a six letter acronym that would help us sift and sort that client into the right hot buttons they used to call them and only talk about things that were interesting to the client, which is always a good idea. You know, it'd be relevant. So I think if you want to keep things simple, it's about being super relevant for your audience.
James: And that's where some people go wrong. They're more interested in what they've got to stay in, what they're doing. And and the, the great idea they have, but it's all about, now, a good way to really get to know your customer very well is to create some kind of community. So I've just ticked over 10 years now of having my own membership online. And a lot of other people are discovering the community aspect, whether it's a Ezra Firestone has a community around his ecommerce product, so traditional brands and indirect response marketers. And now organizing communities around them. We're seeing even the greatest of product launch formula, a syndicate type marketers and now building memberships and subscriptions and turning to social media to actually connect with people rather than just pushing to them. They're actually having an interaction now.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. It's very important. I mean, I know marketers now who, who have sold courses for a long time and then they just start selling their courses and give them content away for free and they just have the, a couple of different levels of membership and some private coaching and stuff like that. But that's the community that build up. They build up a core community of a, of a, of a few people who,who pay a lot of money every month to be in that community. And then it goes out from there with lower price points. And of course they have their, their social media followers as well as the ads, sort of outer rim of that community.
James: Well, some of the people who I know are going really well. One thing that seems to be in common is they usually corner a more premium end of the market. Don't actually have to have a lot of low end products. There was a lot of talk about tripwires and in fact if you go back, I think my being 10 years ago, $7 products were in back then before they were even called a trip wire. You don't actually have to have that in your marketing repertoire if you want. You can have a really good free content. That is the new free content is as good as the old paid content. And I've always had that approach should be so good that people would pay for it and that will build up that market, the trust, the rapport, the, the awareness, the relevance that the conversion is happening.
James: So I've found things like podcasts to be particularly powerful and videos of more, raised in phenomenon, people watching a lot more videos since the advent of the iPhone and the tablets and those things are enough to bring people to warm them up to the point where they might consider a higher ticket item. And other two examples, like Ferrari who don't really have a low ticket product, it's like high ticket or nothing and they don't have a high volume either. You can have a low ticket, low volume and still do really well. In fact, yeah, like 30, 30 or so members paying 3000 a month, you have $1 million a year business.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's an important point. And, and some of these guys that I knew who have these, these kinds of memberships,you know, they, just service a very small number of clients and they have that, that big jump that you're talking about, which, which in traditional Internet marketing training where we're, we're trained that they're, you know, you've got to ascend people slowly up this ladder.
Brian: You go get a free $7 and then 47, 97 and so forth, you know, so, this goes to, this goes against that, that whole thing. And I think that, I of your input on this that that, people are, are more ready and why you said before about, about, free content being the new pay content that really, was a great way to put it. What I was thinking, you know, really crystallized that the people are as as well qualified a prospect or any of reading free content out they used to be with, with paid content. So therefore it's not really that much of a jump as if somebody had paid a couple of hundred bucks to read your content that's now on social media. So that person is now more prepared to jump up to the next level.
James: It's a very similar concept to the power of demonstration. You know, people test drive before they buy. If you can help people get a result before they buy. This is something Dean Jackson talks about, helps them get a result before they even hand over the money. Then that's going to be an easier ask. And the proof is there through their own results. I actually get a lot of people sending me correspondence for having gotten results just from listening to my podcast, which is great.
James: I'm able to serve a lasted a very low cost. It's cost very little in terms of hosting to find my perfect buyers and I agree with you. The ascension model is the biggest myths ever. This concept that people always start low and then go up high. In my own top level group, which is called silver circle, there's 34 members at the moment and around about a third them are also members of my superfast business community, which is a more affordable starting point, but two thirds are not.
James: They've come straight in at the top lists like some people are going to walk into the bar and they're going to want that top shelf liquor. So the goal is to help people find the right product for them straight away and have the most relevant conversation possible. And I want to just extend on a thought. It's good to have a high ticket, low volume product. I do actually have quite a few clients who have high ticket, high volume and you know, there's, there's, a few of them mate, they actually have hundreds of people at thousands per month. You can end up having a $10 million a year E business. That's the main thing that you do. And they don't really have anything in between that, from fray to that with the exception of a book. And I will say this, most of the people on coaching and when they're doing $3 million a year on average, almost all of them have or are having a book. And I think that's still, it's an old school concept that is not getting tired. It's great to have a book.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting because I'm actually, just finished writing my latest one and I've got, someone helped me launch that and it's really something that, that were taught over the years. But you know, not everybody implements it, you know, and a lot of people who, who don't have a book who know better and they know that they should have, they should be a published author and if, if possible, a bestselling author. But, but they, they haven't done that. And as well as they, they've done,what you're saying is they do even better if they had a book
James: It's a magnifier. It will just, it'll, there'll be pre book and post book in their phase of life. And in fact, one of my students, Alan did, who has a marketing book, it's pretty much the top marketing book on Amazon most of the Times called the Onepage marketing plan. And I asked him to prepare a presentation for superfast business live on the topic of how to get your own book in the bestseller, et cetera. Not because that's his business model. He isn't, he's got no interest in teaching people this. I just wanted him to show his secrets because you can actually make a decent income from it.
James: But he's mastered the idea of creating a book that sells well. And then how to promote it beyond the publishing thing. And I've noticed this, you know, I actually learned from my own students. My book a year later, is I'm still a best seller and selling really well because you can actually create a good book and market it appropriately over the long haul. And I think there will be a difference. I've noticed that people who read the book, who then find your products or services a very receptive to getting on board, there's, there's not much sales involved in fact have somehow escaped and need to be a world class copywriter. And there's no 30page direct response sales letters in any of my marketing, because by the time people get to my site, a lot of the heavy lifting's been done.
Brian: And that's the thing about a good book, you know, it is, isn't same sales letter and it doesn't have to be in that format or the, the old,Jeff Paul, how to make $4,000 a day sitting at your kitchen table in your underwear. That was like a sales page positioned as the book. But, he's a different story. You know, your book like yours, it's got amazing content. And, from what a fit through it, it looks, it's just like everything you share on social media being even better. You know, cause I've seen your videos on Linkedin as well and they're, they're really good content, but the book teaches that content. It's the content marketing thing that you've been talking about for so many years. You know,you put out good content and it's not, it's not, that doesn't have a headline and bullet points and a call to action. There's not a sales letter, but it still pre sales people on wanting to do business with you, especially at that higher price membership.
James: It's more like a dripping water torture. You know, over time I've found some people might take seven or eight years to become a customer, but the long game and if you keep producing good stuff, people will eventually take notice. So as, as with everybody, you know, you start out as a, nobody with no experience with imposter syndrome, wondering if your stuff's any good. If you just keep publishing.
James: I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm very good at any of the things that, that I've done in terms of the podcast or the videos or whatever. The book is a good book because I had a lot of help from Kelly Exeter on that. So acknowledging that she made, she made the book better than I could make it. And, I'm good at my coaching. I have a good core product and that never hurt a business to have a fantastic core product. But I think just through sheer persistence, I mean, I'm, I'm up to 632 podcast episodes now, my core podcast just chipping away at it. You know, if you put out a podcast every week for, for a number of years, you will end up getting some market share.
Brian: Yeah, yeah. That's the idea with the geniuses of copywriting, you know, I've only just started this as, as we're recording this today. Yeah, a few months ago and I've just got a handful of people on here. So yeah, I never, I never imagined that, you know, suddenly, you know, cash would, would range from the sky or the day after it released the first episode. But this podcast is, is a, is a long game. You know, it's a way to build up, exactly what you have. I'm, I'm probably about 600 episodes behind you right now, but I will try and catch up.
James: Well, the thing is, you know, I'm probably 500 episodes behind someone else. Yeah. Content Marketing was Gary Vee and I was doing videos. We're at 10, nine, 10 years ago. I did them quite a lot and then I stopped for a while and then I did them about five years ago and then I had a pause and then I've been adding again since last year. Every day. And a lot has changed in terms of the ease of distribution and the number of platforms you can publish to end the way that people consume information. But I think I was too far ahead of my time before it was, it was difficult to produce. It was a slightly clunky process and not quiet, but now, it's the time to make videos especially.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually, yeah, to thought it's the more, Aav gear. Hopefully she'll be coming next couple of days. So that's something that I want to get into it as well. I've done it in the past bits here and there. But, you know, I didn't get an order, a good camera and all that sort of thing because if you're watching this video on youtube, you might see that, even though I bought the new Mac book air a couple of months ago, he knows the Webcam isn’t pretty good. So I might be ordering a good camera, I've got the blue Yeti, my key or what the Lapel Mike on the way and, and stuff like that. So that's, that's something that I'm doing as well. And it's really an interesting idea. It's kind of an inspiration that I had at the off James, where I've been seeing your little videos on Facebook and on linkedin and they're really cold fit. That's another, that's another, it's not a pathway for people to discover you.
James: It's about tools. Like what did the surprisingly few I've discovered over the years. I actually had DSLR cameras and boom, mikes and mixes and all of that light boxes. I've got rid of all of it and all those little videos you see now they're just filmed on an iPhone and a simple rig, you know, like a light and he never this tripod with a light on it. And that's about, that's about it that I'm making those, those with. And one of my other clients, I learned a lot from Scott Divine has Scott space guitars. He uses this camera to Canon g seven x and he ditched his DSLR cameras and got this, and it allows a selfie mode. And when he went doing ghetto mode selfies, he actually doubled his traffic to the youtube channel because people really liked the, the sort of rustic, more behind the scenes, less produced feel for it.
James: Yeah. And you know, to podcasting you could use to see something like that. A little digital recorder. So capture the audio or one of those Mics, like this is sort of a mic, which I imagine, yeah, that's about it. That’s about it. That's basically, I've, that's all the equipment that I use in my business now to generate millions of dollars a year. And if you want to go above that, absolutely does not limit to how far, but don't let the device stop you. Seriously. If you, if all you have is an iPhone you could create podcasts just with that.
Brian: I ordered something called a boya lapel mic which plugs into a phone and, that's a, that's apparently a really good friend named Kevin who recommended me for that one. And I'll let you know how that would be. You're right, it doesn't take that much equipment. And I think, some of the people out there really fall for that trick of, of needing all the equipment they see. They see somebody like Mindvalley for example.
Brian: You know, I've got a whole video team with expensive cameras. And if you, if I could tell you what their budget budgeted to create a course or create a piece of content, you know, you'd be astounded at how much you actually spend on that stuff. And it shows in the quality of their stuff, you know, no doubt that their content in their courses are, are, top of the range. But, but,they're really an exception. When it comes to a person like you as a simple camera, simple mic and, just a simple setup and making tons of money based on that. It shows you you don't need to spend, spend not big on all that stuff.
James: I think the point is you can choose. So heaps in my clients use really pro gear. Scott was a really interesting one because he actually downscaled he had two guys filling this in the works in the studio. Another one of my students, Tom Breeze has a whole studio, but he's a youtube expert. I mean that's an important for him to have a studio, they need to bring in talent make for them. I actually sent the video filmed on my camera and they actually cleaned it up and made it look amazing.
James: So they got mad editing skills as well. Now the companies like Mindvalley with a high level specs and when I spoke for them in Spain, they had a film crew there and they are level documentary. I love that, that level. And when you've got a big company with a big revenue and lots of staff to feed you need to sell a lot of stuff, so quality has to be high. And I do think there's, is this quality inflation going on? I think there is a minimum standard. So at least having clean sound. We'll get you a long way down the track.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. That's why I always use the Blue Yeti mic and the mics in this new Mac book air are a lot better than the old ones, but I still use it. It's a good mic. You know, to make sure we capture that good sound. Yeah. And, I'm working, I've got my, spare room here in my apartment where, you know, I've got everything closed off and I want to make sure that sound is good because, for this podcast especially, you know, I just want to make sure that, that the sound quality is high. This video that we're recording right now, it's just incidental throw it up in Youtube, but, but the sound is, is the most important part.
Brian: So yeah, the, that we've discussed some, amazing things about, about, different ways of getting customers books and content marketing, that the, the, the, the kind of gear that you need, if, if somebody is out to, and then they're wanting to expand the reach and, and they're still have question. What else? What else, other advice do you have for them?
James: Well, I mainly go to list at the moment is produce content, good, good core content that addresses the challenges your customers are facing. Published Vivity yes. Podcast. I wouldn't say it's round one. That's, that's a more competitive saturated market. It's probably a bit harder to up with a show that's interesting enough because I mean it was a good one. I started, it's harder now. We all definitely do videos and then I would have, good, well written Facebook posts, story based or a documentary style pictured in, in long form. Still leading to any kind of fray or shareable content would be amazing. I was speaking to Molly Pittman about this this morning actually. Some of her campaigns get a 50% ratio of shares to comments. So they like half the people that comment also share the content cause they're putting content that’s so good that people just want to share that doc to see who’s better.
James: So combining a blend of paid traffic and social traffic's good. But of course there's still old school ways to do this. Like find out who's got your customers and have them promote you to their email list would be a fantastic quick start and contribute to, to people who have your audience, get on their show. Send them content to put inside their memberships. make people want to go to live events and start to get connections. So those things are great to have that peer group supporting you. Often, my peer group will support me if I'm mentioning something and I actually share it and put it in front of their audience, which is always appreciated
James: Whenever I'm on someone's show, I always share their show on my social media to, to give them some love. And so that I get invited back or they think fondly of me, we do it to one game.
James: You, you've got to take this long. You take as long game approach. Who can I serve? How can I help? So social media, paid traffic, joint finches, they're all good starts. You know, you can even buy a business that's already established. You can actually help once a market places and get a business that already has something in place. So you can start from scratch quickly. And one of my favorite things lately is, it's kind of like to create an instant business from nothing is I'll take a revenue share, slice in someone else's business.
James: I'll just park up to someone else's business. And I'm effectively going to business with them and I'm helping them grow their business. So I get a little cut from the profits that we make and they get a better business and I get rewarded as a sort of a royalty. And this is a business model that I've been doing really well with and sharing with my students. And it's a nice way to get started. If you're good at something, if you have an audience or you’re really good at some particular skill, you can use that skill in someone else's business rather than having to create your own. That could actually be your business.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a, I noticed that that's one of the lightest episodes of your podcasts, the superfast business podcast that you just email your list about, which I'm on. So that's something people should check out as well. But it highlights a really good point that I mean thinking about lately, you know, no person is an island. It's supporting to build up your network is important too to do these deals. And these JVs with, with other, other business owners and other marketers. So, Internet marketing can be a lonely business. And I've found myself sitting in my theory and plenty of times and, and feeling isolated. And, that's where you got to get to get out to his live events. Like you mentioned, this way we've got to start talking to people all over the place and doing deals. So that's a really good point.
James: Yeah. You know, if it was an island, I'd be okay with it because I spent so long in the actual job. Like I had an office which had the door at the front and the back and behind my office was a keyboard for all the cars in the entire dealership and the sales people would go back and forth from my office. And when we went into this new building, the carpet wore out within a month, literally have 80 or 90 interruptions every three hours. It was like crazy. So when I started my own business and I quit my job about 10 years ago now, the peace and quiet, it was serene. I actually, I don't mind the quiet, but I do know that other people tend to fill the void. They look, they go out and seek socialization, especially in social media.
James: And that can be the killer of productivity. So I think you need a strong discipline. If you want to grow your business, you'll be able to turn off the, the need to, to get that social lubrication all the time. But I definitely recommend going to live events because I can pinpoint all the big growth spurts in my business came from live events, especially when I started going to America and I catapulted into a higher-level group of millionaires back then who connected me with good Ip, good ideas around paid traffic, CPA marketing. And I, I got exposed to people making a lot more money than I was, which lifted my bar on what I felt was acceptable for myself. I didn't want to sell myself short anymore.
Brian: True true. And I found the same thing. That's what I'm going to fill in on a plane for, for 18 hours next month and go, go across the TNC. So, and, it's not, it's not for the content. But it's for the, for the networking army clients meet potential clients that, I'll be hanging out with the, Justin broken the ad skills cruise. So, that’s why I’m going there.
James: So you’ll travel a long way for free breakfast?
Brian: Yeah. I'll do anything for free breakfast
James: I like giving Justin a big hug at that event. It's a great place. So, every time I've been to that event, I've noted down the people who I bump into and I usually end up with about 115 contacts in my notepad and it's a nice way to reconnect with my peer group and to see what's happening. So yeah, that event in particular is a good networking event, whereas some other events have different purposes. Some might be a high level content event where you're learning math, terrific Ip, there might be smaller where you're really getting to share more intimately about your business and get more relevant information to you.
Brian: That's true.
James: In terms of the volume of people, TNC is a big one.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. But that's smaller that you mentioned, I still good for networking. You meet, a lot, a smaller number of people, but those people tend to be higher value, to your, to your business.
James: So I'm thinking about my mouth dives mastermind where there's effectively 10 clients plus me and over a week on a boat where you can't go anywhere else. You build relationships that are lifelong lasting it. And not only that, you cross pollinate best practice if a few of those students came off the boat and doubled their business, doubled his business the month after, and then the month after that he doubled it again, implementing things that he got from that cause we just intensely focused on him for a week. And, and by the time you spend a week with 10 people, you'll find out good they're doing. And, you cross pollinate. The idea is it's a fantastic way to do it. Okay.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that's a, kind of the, the end game for a lot of us. But, when it comes to cross pollinating, ideas that you've come across from your students and your business. One of the things that you've done that really well and is your books. So can you tell us about the book? I know that's one that I've got and that has been around for a little while. Tell us about that.
James: So it's called Work Less, Make More. So it looks like I'll show you the cover because some books with similar names. Yeah. But in the book I talk about, basically about being personally effective. Like got to get out of your own way and set up your routines for success and to get off the social media. Set a routine for yourself, set schedulers, move out of your email is probably killing productivity for most people.
James: Once you've got that sorted, it talks about how you can find the right offer to promote and about getting a team to help you grow your business and choosing the right business model. And then scaling that model so that you don't have too much drama. And I deconstruct the ascension model and talk about how that's not such a great idea. I talk about no compromise. And then there's a bonus chapter that people can get that's not in the book but it links to it. And that's around the whole concept of own the race course, which I talk about. And that's controlling what you can control and not getting wiped out by making a silly mood building on someone else's platform in entirety, which is a very common mistake that I see people make.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I know people who, you know, if Facebook went away for some reason, you know that their entire business would be gone.
James: Yes. Especially if they're sitting there with a group and that's their sole traffic point. So I think more than ever, it's important to have your audience should be distributed across multiple places. So I like to have, I mean in the old days we wanted an email list and then I started talking about an email list with a subscription guarantee, which is like the safety net. Get people subscribed to the podcast, get people as your fan on Facebook. Have some Instagram followers, get a linkedin connection thing happening. So if I want to add all those individual pots up, my collective audience, is, is getting a good exposure to my message and I'm able to reach them if I lost any one of those.
Brian: The end of the world. Yeah, that's a, that's an amazing you could read and why people should read that book. What's the website where they can get? Of course they can get that on Amazon.
James: Yeah. Amazon or audible. So you can listen to it, you can read, it would be a great plus to start. You will find it at superfastbusiness.com as well at the bottom of the page. Links to relevant now.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. I'll check the link up on the page for this podcast. If you're listening on Itunes, just go search on Amazon. Work less, make more by James Schramko, the amazing book, use of heard, all the stuff that they got that's he's put in that it's basically, you know, everything that, that you need to do, to create a successful online business. So,
James: It kind of applies to a regular business to the profit formula in there. Yeah. Yeah. True Book that I wanted my kids to read. And it's quite short as well. It doesn't take long to read. And at the end of each chapter action checklist. Back there is a work book that summarizes all of the action checklists available jamesschramko.com and that one, if you just filled out those action steps, you will have a transformation even if you don't read the book, get a result.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Still good the book though cause it's, it's very valuable. Yeah. Get definitely get it and it's well worth it. So, so I was starting to recommend that. Thanks again for joining us. James. Been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show again, this time with a proper episode for geniuses of a copywriting. I've really appreciate everything you've shared with us and I hope to lots of people go out to and a smart enough to get your book.
James: Well, it's incredibly generous of you to have me back and I really appreciate it very much.
Brian: Yeah, I appreciate everything you've shared, so thanks again and we'll do this again soon.
James: Okay. See, yeah,
Announcer: Thank you for listening to Geniuses of Copywriting with Brian Cassingena. To get the full transcript in all the resources mentioned on today's show, go to www.geniusesofcopywriting.com now.